References: Safe? Legal? Relevant? Useful?
Mar 5th, 2010 by Krista Ogburn Francis in HR
References: Worth the Trouble?
Upstart HR pro Ben Eubanks says: the “return is small for all of the time invested in the process.”
Human Resources writer and speaker Mike VanDervort agrees: “They are marginally useful. That is all!”
Joan Ginsberg, JD, SPHR, cautions not to give ‘em. Too dangerous.
What do you say? What policies govern your reference giving and your reference seeking? How much time do you invest checking references and what credence do you give to the material? Do you think practices vary by industry and size?
I have my own thoughts about this and a post in the works, but I’d love to hear from other Human Resources professionals and hiring managers first.
photo by etingrita
I think the use of references supplied by the applicant is provides marginal value. The “references” you can get to beyond the candidates list may provide much more value. But it takes time and money. So for some positions I would not do them. For executive positions I would have them done by a pro.
(JB King left this comment on my Toolbox for HR account)
I’m not a hiring manager or HR professional, but I would still like to contribute the following to the discussion:
References like so many other things in the world can be a minefield in some ways. I may be a reference for a number of people that I work as generally I like some if not most of what was done and thus don’t mind passing along that information. I find it odd that the idea of recommendations on sites like LinkedIn isn’t mentioned as a new kind of reference that may be useful in some cases as the information was written fresh at the time. IOW, if you called up some of my former co-workers it could be hard for them to remember what I did 6 years ago while they may have written about me 5 years ago and that is part of my LinkedIn profile.
There are also a few different perspectives to be said for references. Was the person my boss, teammate, project manager, or subordinate? Each of those is a slightly different dimension in terms of how I may be seen. The boss may have a more administrative view of what I’m doing and how that is going while the project manager may be much closer to my finished work in a sense. Thus, while talking to a former supervisor may be nice, it may also be useful to know what my co-workers that are on the same footing as me think of what I do. Do you know what you want to ask? Do you want to try to get my strengths and weaknesses from former co-workers? It’s an idea though I’m not sure I think it would work really well most of the time.
On the question of the time taken to check one’s references, it can vary dramatically. If there are a bunch of standard questions, then it may not be as time consuming as if one has to try to come up with questions on the spot other than, “What did you think of X?”
A lot of good points, Michael. For which kind of positions would you not do references?
I’ll give my perspective from that of a HR/Training person going through the job search and being required to list references. I’ve also been a finalist for two Executive Director positions so I realize the importance of professional references.
My last job leaves me in a real issue – my supervisor was less than an average performer with horrible writing skills and her ability to write an honest annual evaluation for me really causes me to question whether or not they would give the correct picture to someone calling for a reference. The first Executive Director position called this supervisor and they were told “if you want a reference on him, you’ll have to call HR” – the follow up interview asked why would my past supervisor word their answer in such a way – if I would have said the supervisor was weak, it would have sounded like sour grapes; really no matter what I would have said would have been a no-win situation so I went with “I don’t know” – fell on my own sword there. Another reason I don’t like using this particular supervisor is the person they eventually hired to replace me was no higher than 4th on my list of potential hires – nearly all the issues I highlighted this person would have are truly an issue for this group – the supervisor’s hiring actions solidified my thought they really didn’t understand my area of the organization. If I use the HR Manager from this agency as a reference, all they will give is dates of employment and a “yes/no” on rehire (agency policy).
Prior to working for this agency, I ran a family owned factory. 2 years after I left, the family sold out to a large corporation who didn’t capture the personnel files from the family so no one there even recalls me.
To get a stable human being that I actually worked for, you would have to go back 11 years and even then, she works for another company now – if you call her looking for ABC Company and someone says XYZ Group, it kind of sounds fishy.
There has to be a happy medium in references somewhere for both sides but I feel each answer would be very individualized based on each person’s experiences. Back to square 1?
Bob Myers´s last blog ..Day Thirty Three – March 5, 2010
Bob, that’s quite a challenge and dilemma. Still, I think there is more you can do when you need to provide references. For example, maybe someone either inside or outside of that organization could both vouch for your credibility and verify that your employer was undergoing some upheaval during the time leading up to your departure. Maybe that person could be a former Board member, or an executive director from another agency, or a manager from another department.
In the last few years, I have hired two people who were terminated after reporting fraud or wrongdoing at their previous employers. (Can you believe it? Why wouldn’t Whistleblower protection apply? Well, that’s another post.) In both cases, we were able to speak to several people who spoke to the integrity and performance of the person in question and corroborated their story. So if it can be done for a whistleblower, I think it might be possible to find people to help you out when you apply for jobs where recent references are required.
As for a possible reference who worked for ABC Company which is now XYZ Group, I run into that issue on almost a daily basis; I honestly wouldn’t worry about it. People change jobs, companies merge or go out of business. It happens.
Good luck, Bob, and thanks for your comment.